Videos > NRB General Counsel Mike Farris on "Washington Watch" | August 29, 2024 NRB General Counsel Mike Farris on "Washington Watch" | August 29, 2024 NRB 50 views 1 year ago • 7:49 min
Transcript [00:01] good afternoon welcome back to [00:03] Washington watch I'm your host Jody [00:05] Heist filling in today for Tony thank [00:07] you so much for joining us I think [00:09] probably most of you know that before [00:11] joining the F FRC team I served in [00:14] Congress for eight years representing [00:16] Georgia's 10th congressional district [00:18] but prior to that some of you may not [00:20] know that I was a pastor for almost 30 [00:23] years and uh it was during that time [00:26] that I personally encountered [00:30] a conflict with what is known as the [00:33] Johnson Amendment and I ended up being [00:35] one of 33 pastors across the country Who [00:39] challenged the Johnson Amendment and one [00:41] thing led to another that effectively is [00:43] how I ended up going to Congress but [00:45] this is a the Johnson amendment is a [00:48] provision in the US tax code that [00:50] effectively muzzles nonprofits including [00:53] churches it in essence censors through [00:57] intimidation what can and cannot be said [01:00] from the pulpits for fear of potentially [01:02] losing tax exempt status or being sued [01:05] or something to the like I will say that [01:07] during my time in Congress twice we were [01:10] able to get a repeal of the Johnson [01:13] Amendment passed in the House of [01:15] Representatives unfortunately it failed [01:18] both times in the Senate and I readily [01:22] admit the single biggest heartbreak and [01:25] disappointment for me personally in [01:27] leaving Congress was not being able to [01:31] get that across the Finish Line a repeal [01:34] of the Johnson Amendment but now the [01:36] Fight Continues just yesterday the [01:39] nation's largest Association of [01:40] Christian communicators nrb stepped into [01:43] the ring and now joining me to talk [01:46] about this by phone we're having a [01:47] little trouble with the video portion [01:49] but at least by phone is Mike Ferris [01:51] he's a general counsel for the National [01:54] Religious broadcasters Association as I [01:56] mentioned also known as nrb Mike welcome [02:00] back to Washington watch thank you for [02:02] joining us thank you Jody sorry about [02:05] the uh video I wish it was there hey [02:08] well I wish it was there too but listen [02:10] I'm just glad you're here you are you [02:12] are one of the Champions on all of this [02:16] and so let's just start with that there [02:17] may be some people out there I shared a [02:19] little bit about it but lay out for us [02:22] if you would the Johnson amendment in a [02:25] little bit more detail sure uh lynon [02:28] Johnson in 195 4 was a US senator [02:31] running for reelection didn't like the [02:33] fact that some nonprofits in Texas were [02:37] supporting his opponent in the primary [02:40] election and so he got um Congress to [02:44] insert into the Internal Revenue code a [02:47] provision that says nonprofits can't say [02:49] what they want to say about [02:51] candidates um now ironically about two [02:54] weeks later after Congress passed it he [02:57] got a pastor of a Protestant church in [03:00] Texas to circulate to all the Protestant [03:02] churches in Texas that Lyndon Johnson [03:05] was a good Christian man and running [03:07] against the Catholic and they should [03:09] support the Protestant over the Catholic [03:10] so he violated the Johnson amendment in [03:13] his own campaign about two weeks later [03:15] but nonetheless it is a muzzle on [03:19] churches we wouldn't have the First [03:22] Amendment if the churches in Virginia [03:24] hadn't been able to convince James [03:26] Madison to support a Bill of Rights uh [03:29] that's where it came from is is the [03:31] Baptist churches in Orange County and [03:32] surrounding areas told James Madison you [03:35] want our votes you better support a Bill [03:37] of Rights and so they um were able to [03:40] get that from him and and so we're we're [03:42] trying to reinstate the original vision [03:45] of America where churches could preach [03:47] the whole Council of the word of God and [03:50] not stop at applying that to the issues [03:53] that are facing us today we we think [03:55] that churches and other nonprofits [03:57] should be able to free to say whatever [03:59] they want to say [04:00] absolutely and thank you a thousand [04:02] times over for leading the charge on [04:04] this at this point I I I believe this is [04:07] one of the reasons why so many churches [04:09] are not engaged so many pastors as a [04:12] result so many Christians across the [04:14] board are not engaged they have been led [04:16] to believe this erroneous uh Narrative [04:20] of Separation church and state that you [04:22] cannot as a church or as a pastor from [04:26] the scripture deal with Biblical truth [04:28] that that touches on in fact directly at [04:32] sometimes uh deals with political issues [04:35] that somehow that's illegal it is not [04:37] illegal and that is the heart the Hub [04:40] the centerpiece of our first amendment [04:42] rights can you tell us a little bit [04:43] about the complaint that was filed [04:45] yesterday sure it's a over 50 pages long [04:49] and what we detail in it is the massive [04:53] number of uh nonprofit newspapers and [04:58] Democrat leaning Church that openly [05:00] violate the Johnson Amendment on a [05:03] regular basis uh Philadelphia Inquirer [05:06] one of the largest newspapers in the [05:07] country is a nonprofit newspaper it [05:10] regularly endorses a Full Slate of [05:12] democrat candidates now we make it very [05:14] clear in the case we think they have the [05:16] constitutional right to do that we think [05:18] that the the churches that are having [05:20] Kamala Harris and had Joe Biden and had [05:23] Barack Obama we think they have the [05:25] right to do that but we don't think it's [05:27] a one wayway we think it should be a [05:29] available and free for everybody and so [05:32] the the pattern of discriminatory [05:35] enforcement by the IRS is really [05:38] prevalent and it takes up a whole lot of [05:40] the complaint so we we go in great [05:43] detail and we we're contending that the [05:46] IRS is not only is is the law just as [05:50] it's written a violation of Free Speech [05:52] but as in force it's discrimination and [05:54] an denial of equal protection so we're [05:56] going after every possible [05:58] constitutional angle and uh you know we [06:00] feel real good about our chances in in [06:02] the in the long run that sounds like a [06:05] very very sound strategy uh and look it [06:09] it it would appear to me but as a pastor [06:11] I used to receive threatening letters [06:13] every election cycle uh and so it sounds [06:16] as though there's a potential in this [06:18] upcoming election for the Johnson [06:20] amendment to be used as a weapon again [06:23] so what would you say to pastors and [06:25] nonprofit leaders who might be tuning [06:27] into this broadcast right now well first [06:30] of all they can say whatever they want [06:31] to say about issues all day long every [06:34] day and never um be inv violation of the [06:38] Johnson Amendment the only time that [06:39] they're in violation of the Johnson [06:41] amendment is if they connect it to a [06:43] candidate and say this candidate is good [06:45] or this candidate is bad on this issue [06:48] if if you go to the point of supporting [06:50] or opposing a candidate you're you're [06:53] risking the IRS coming after you however [06:56] we think that that's constitutionally [06:57] protected and we're representing two [06:59] Brave churches a Sand Spring Church from [07:03] uh near Tyler Texas and First Baptist [07:06] wasam Texas our our church plist and [07:09] then intercessors for America and [07:11] National Religious broadcasters those [07:13] are our four clients in the case and [07:16] we're contending we have the right to [07:17] speak up and we we want people to speak [07:20] up and stand up for what's right thank [07:24] you so so much Mike Ferris general [07:28] counsel for this case with the National [07:30] Religious broadcasters Association and [07:33] we will be keeping a pulse on this and [07:36] uh look forward to hearing great results [07:38] and outcomes thanks for joining us today [07:39] on Washington watch we appreciate it
Watch the full episode here:
https://www.frc.org/wwlivewithtonyperkins/alex-mooney-mike-farris-jerry-angelo-dr-jay-bhattacharya
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