Transcript [00:00] ord channels to, you know, go into all [00:02] this dark stuff. Like most people [00:03] wouldn't want to do that. And I'm not [00:04] saying that we hang out in all the [00:06] darkest of the dark corners of the [00:07] internet. Uh you could justify some [00:09] really weird stuff, but to, you know, [00:11] for the sake of evangelism, but what I [00:12] am saying is that that that the younger [00:15] generation, gaming rooms, you know, Tik [00:17] Tok lives, um you know, school [00:19] cafeterias, they're vastly in [00:22] inaccessible to the average pastor in [00:24] this in this nation. So Charlie knew [00:26] that we had to use media and and he knew [00:29] that in order to reach them, we also had [00:30] to go where they were and that was [00:31] college campuses. He saw that as the [00:33] battlefield. And when he was there, he [00:35] was always learning. He was he was [00:37] asking questions of them, not just to he [00:39] Charlie didn't care about debate. He [00:41] wanted to he wanted to help people find [00:43] truth. Um, and you know, if you're [00:47] stranded in a desert and you're getting [00:49] ready to die of dehydration and somebody [00:51] comes up to you to give you directions [00:53] to the nearest town and hand you a [00:54] bottle of water, the only reason that's [00:56] a debate is if you think that you know [00:59] the right way to go and they don't, but [01:02] you've already been wandering for a long [01:03] time. And if you're humble, you'll say, [01:05] you know what, I need some help. I need [01:07] directions. I need something to drink. [01:09] And so truth is only offensive. It's, [01:11] you know, even people go, Charlie is [01:12] provocative. Charlie wasn't provocative. [01:15] Charlie was truthful. And and what the [01:18] only time truth is is provocative is [01:20] when you don't want to hear it. So yeah, [01:22] to somebody who doesn't want to hear the [01:23] truth, Charlie's provocative. All of us [01:25] as Christian communicators are [01:26] provocative is somebody who doesn't want [01:28] to hear the truth. I think it's a [01:29] mislabel of him to call him that. I [01:31] think it's misunderstanding who he was. [01:33] Um you know, Jesus wasn't pro [01:35] provocative. He was a truth teller. Uh [01:37] he was the way, the truth, and the life. [01:39] Um you know, you know, Charlie was a [01:41] man. Uh he was a man who had, you know, [01:43] faults and flaws just like any of us. He [01:46] wasn't perfect. Uh we shouldn't deify [01:48] him. Um but he was a great man and as [01:51] far as men go, he was about as good as [01:53] they come. As as many have said, I think [01:55] he was the best of us. And and I think [01:57] that as Americans go, he's he's there's [01:59] there's few people who have done more [02:02] for this country than what Charlie Kirk [02:03] has. I don't think we'd be where we are [02:05] with this administration with with [02:08] seeing victories over the Johnson [02:09] amendment with seeing the overturning of [02:11] Row uh with seeing um you know uh uh you [02:14] know just the the Trump administration [02:16] their elevate I mean to have almost the [02:18] whole cabinet stand up and testify to [02:20] the lordship of Jesus Christ you know at [02:22] his memorial it was it was uh [02:24] mindblowing um the transformation the [02:26] revival that's stirring in this nation [02:28] none of that would be possible without [02:30] Charlie Kirk and I think it's I think [02:31] it's honorable you know to consider him [02:33] in that way and to remember the absolute [02:36] best of him. [02:38] >> Yeah. You know, he he really was that [02:40] way and I think it's you're right to [02:42] remember the best of him. Charlie never [02:43] claimed I mean I I'd run into him and I [02:46] I didn't know him as well as you, but [02:47] I'd run into him. We we in the same [02:49] circle so we were different events and [02:51] we'd talk. He never claimed to be, you [02:54] know, perfect or to know everything or [02:57] have all the answers. You know, again, [02:59] something good about his leadership in [03:00] that. And so talk about that for a [03:02] second. Charlie, he like you said, he [03:05] really he he cared about people. He [03:07] didn't care about the debate. You know, [03:08] a lot of people care about the debate, [03:10] right? They they want the debate. They [03:12] want to win the debate. [03:13] >> At the end of the day, Charlie wanted to [03:14] lead, as your analogy showed there, he [03:16] wanted to lead that person [03:18] >> to to the right place with the right [03:21] resource on the way, the water, get and [03:23] lead that person. Talk about that [03:25] leadership and how he you you know [03:28] spread that throughout the TP [03:30] organization. in the turning port [03:31] organization and how that affected you. [03:35] >> Charlie was a great leader um and and [03:38] his wife Erica is going to be a great [03:40] leader as well. I mean, she already is [03:41] and she's she's going to do so well in [03:43] this role and happy to talk about that [03:44] more um too. But the um Charlie had an [03:49] ability to command a room like few [03:52] people I've ever seen in my life. Uh [03:53] I've met I mean, you know, as as you [03:56] know, I'm I'm among peers who do this. [03:58] you know, all of us probably on this [04:00] call, we've met a lot of famous people. [04:02] Uh, we've spent time with them. We've [04:04] talked with them. I've traveled with [04:05] Hollywood actors. I've I've um, you [04:08] know, I I've been on film sets with [04:10] major names. I've shaken hands with [04:12] people. I've met and prayed for [04:13] President Trump and, you know, uh, you [04:15] know, been able to, you know, uh, be in [04:18] his presence. I've I've been to the [04:20] White House multiple times. You know, [04:21] all the things that that come with kind [04:23] of the type of work that we do and where [04:26] God has us. And what I could say is that [04:29] there was still always a little bit of a [04:33] nervousness at times when I was around [04:36] Charlie. And it didn't affect our [04:38] relationship. It wasn't anything like [04:40] that, but it was just there was [04:41] something about him where, [04:45] you know, it was it was almost I I don't [04:48] even want to call it an intimidation. It [04:50] there was like a just an awe factor. It [04:52] was there was a different level that he [04:54] moved at and hummed at [04:57] >> and there was an expectation like [04:59] Charlie this was Charlie's leadership [05:01] you know you would think that like you [05:03] picture a senior leader that would come [05:05] in and go okay guys here's what we got [05:06] to do I've been thinking of this plan [05:07] and blah blah blah and and Charlie would [05:09] have those moments but for me mostly [05:12] what Charlie did is he would go Lucas we [05:15] need to think bigger [05:17] and that was all he needed to say and it [05:19] would just birth something in you and [05:21] then you come back to him and go, [05:23] "Here's what I got." And he's like, "I [05:24] love it." You know, and and he just [05:26] would he would inspire greatness in the [05:29] people around him and and bring out the [05:33] absolute best in them. And, you know, he [05:35] would he was a brilliant strategist. I [05:37] mean, he's mapped out, you know, [05:38] through, you know, probably 2050 on how [05:41] to, you know, keep America safe. I mean, [05:43] he's just he's, you know, he's [05:44] brilliant. He wrote everything down. Um, [05:47] you know, it's and you know, Turning [05:48] Point is in great hands moving forward, [05:50] you know, just because he's given us a [05:52] clear clear direction of where we're [05:54] headed for a long time. Um, but it's I [05:57] think it's, you know, just for people [05:59] that had never had a chance to get to [06:01] know him, he was a once in a-lifetime, [06:04] you know, once in a generation mind as [06:05] people have said. Uh, I feel like I am, [06:09] you know, I'm good on my feet. I'm I'm [06:11] able to think through complex ideas. is [06:13] I mean I felt like a third grader around [06:16] Charlie, you know, it was just just like [06:18] you know it's it just ability to but yet [06:21] there was also a connection like I can [06:23] remember we we did these nights called [06:24] freedom nights uh which I'm doing one [06:26] next week um in in his place uh which I [06:29] don't I don't uh I don't take lightly uh [06:32] at Dream City Church in Phoenix. And so [06:34] we'll get 1500 to 2500 people depending [06:36] on who the guests are. And my my faith [06:38] department runs these. will bring in um [06:40] you know uh various you know um uh [06:43] voices in the faith community and then [06:45] uh they'll do a worship service. Charlie [06:47] would come out and do a monologue and [06:49] then sit down and interview these guests [06:50] and then take Q&A from the crowd. And so [06:53] um you know when I would that was [06:55] typically when I would go out to Phoenix [06:56] was for these events first week of every [06:58] month and I would always sit in the [06:59] front row and I was always sitting in [07:00] the front row kind of an ey line of [07:02] Charlie with how he was on the stage and [07:04] anytime the conversation got theological [07:06] he would always look over to me and it [07:08] was kind of like after he said something [07:10] kind of look for me to go like yes you [07:11] you hit that like yes that was good you [07:13] know and and you know and like and I [07:16] think that he I think he appreciated the [07:18] reassurance but he was so good [07:20] theologically I mean he was better than [07:21] most pastors are, you know, when it came [07:23] to that, but there was always, we always [07:25] had that connection. I think that he, [07:27] you know, I was 15 years older. I'm 15 [07:29] years older than he was. And despite [07:31] that, he was a mentor to me in a lot of [07:32] areas. I learned so much from him. I'd [07:35] like to think that I added some value, [07:37] you know, in his world and was able to [07:39] kind of help him walk through, you know, [07:40] some of the the theological concepts as [07:42] well. But but he didn't need he didn't [07:44] need a lot of help in that area. He was [07:45] very in tune. He was in the word all the [07:47] time. Um, you know, he loved the Lord. [07:49] Uh, he loved the church. He loved [07:51] pastors so much. He just loved them. Um [07:55] he always wanted to have pastors around. [07:57] He just and and not for show. This was [07:58] private dinners and conversations. He [08:01] just loved being around, you know, [08:02] people who who understood the gospel and [08:05] he would ask them just question after [08:06] question after question. Uh just, you [08:08] know, so many good memories there. [08:11] >> Yeah, he was a lifelong learner, you [08:13] know. Um, you know, I I probably met [08:15] Charlie maybe a couple of years into [08:18] TPUSA when it, you know, started and he [08:21] was pretty young then, you know, and and [08:24] I the change I saw in him, you know, [08:28] over that time was like you said, he he [08:30] really kind of started at least more [08:33] conservative kind of in his perspective [08:36] and and and things. But I think he [08:38] realized and he and I had to talk about [08:39] this. He realized that, you know, that [08:42] the foundation of faith that was behind [08:45] it all, conservativism without the [08:47] faith. And then he he he was already a [08:50] Christian, but he dove in deep to be [08:52] able to understand and answer those [08:54] questions, you know, and he was you, [08:56] like you said, he was well read. Uh he [08:59] he was a constant learner. T talk about [09:02] for a second some things that we can [09:04] learn about that from Charlie because [09:08] about his preparation and how he did [09:11] that to engage with people. [09:14] Yeah. You know it um he he never stopped [09:16] learning and I this is something that [09:20] I I was conscious of before his passing. [09:24] Since his passing I've been a lot more [09:26] conscious of it. Um, you know, the last [09:29] 16 days, I haven't had time to, you [09:31] know, read or write my name for that [09:32] matter. It's it's I can't even [09:34] communicate the level of overwhelm. It I [09:36] I told I I told my wife the other day [09:40] and my parents my parents came to NRB a [09:42] couple times just to see what I do and [09:44] everything else and follow me around. I [09:46] think I exhausted them on the first day. [09:48] And and I said, you know, my life right [09:52] now is like if I was [09:56] going to NRB for 16 days straight. Um on [10:00] top of that, hosting a three-hour live [10:03] show. Um taking about a thousand text [10:06] messages. Uh you know, all this. I mean, [10:08] just it's but but I'm comparing my world [10:10] because the only place I know that's as [10:12] crazy as what I'm doing right now is in [10:14] RB week of the excitement and everything [10:15] that happens there. And it's and it's [10:17] like that every day, but except for it's [10:19] it's it's gripped in a lot of pain. It's [10:21] gripped in a lot of heartache, you know, [10:22] in terms of what we're going through [10:24] right now. But it's uh Charlie Charlie [10:27] loved to learn. And I have I've been, [10:31] you know, since since his assassination, [10:33] I've just been, you know, I've made a [10:35] new commitment in my life that I've got [10:37] to go harder. I've got to I I there's a [10:40] lethargy that has come over the American [10:42] church that Charlie hated. And this he [10:46] loved pastors, but he also got so mad at [10:48] pastors that he felt like were weak or [10:50] you know there was a church in in um uh [10:53] there was a church in Phoenix. Charlie [10:55] would tell you his name their name if [10:57] they if he was here right now. I'll [10:58] spare I'll spare that at the moment. Uh [11:01] but there was a church in Phoenix, a [11:03] large church, and they would not touch [11:05] the abortion issue. and and Arizona ends [11:08] up passing, you know, one of the most uh [11:10] progressive liberal, you know, [11:12] pro-abortion uh you know, laws. And and [11:15] Charlie felt like if these guys would [11:17] have said he wanted to I had to talk him [11:19] down from putting a billboard over the [11:20] church, like you know, just condemning [11:23] them, you know, for this. He was just [11:25] ready to he was ready to slay a dragon [11:26] over this thing. And looking back, maybe [11:28] I should have, you know, encouraged him [11:29] to do it. um you know he uh he was so he [11:33] just he just he loved the church but you [11:35] know he was always reading uh but even [11:37] more than that he would gather people [11:39] around him I mean we I think probably a [11:40] lot of people you you saw Frank Turk [11:42] speak at the uh the memorial Frank's [11:45] done a longer form you know podcast on [11:47] on his experience you know he was [11:49] traveling with Charlie to and because [11:51] Charlie engaged in a mentor him in these [11:52] areas and as as Frank said like how do [11:55] you teach a guy who knows everything you [11:57] know anything and and Frank's comment [11:59] was like The only the only thing about [12:01] Charlie that surpassed his intellect was [12:03] his humility. He would learn something [12:05] from everybody. Uh it didn't matter any [12:08] staff member. I would see him stop [12:09] people, you know, he'd walk through the [12:11] halls and of of the headquarters, you [12:13] know, we have multiple buildings. He'd [12:15] pop in a building and he would just say, [12:16] "Tell me what you do. What's the hardest [12:18] thing about your job? You know, what's [12:19] an idea that you've had that we're not [12:21] doing right now? If you could do [12:22] anything differently, what would it look [12:23] like?" He would he just always had these [12:25] questions like ready to fire and it [12:27] would catch everybody off guard and you [12:29] just be like uh uh you know but like he [12:30] would learn something as they got that [12:32] out. He would draw the best out of them. [12:34] Um he he loved having people like you [12:36] know the president of of Hillsdale you [12:39] know around him to ask him questions. He [12:41] loved pastors from all different [12:42] denominations. You know we've seen [12:44] people try to claim Charlie. Oh he was [12:45] this or he was this. And I don't think [12:47] Charlie you know was was able to be [12:49] owned by any of that. I think that [12:51] Charlie was just a guy who loved the [12:52] Lord and loved the church and and he [12:54] loved learning from pastors. He would [12:56] learn from a Catholic priest the same [12:57] way he would learn from Doug Wilson in [12:59] the reform movement or or Vodie, you [13:02] know, and and want to, you know, Vony, I [13:04] mean, man, I got the news of that and [13:06] what a tragic, you know, loss for our [13:08] community here as well. uh we have lost [13:10] you know four juggernauts of the faith [13:12] in the last you know in the last you [13:14] know several months and it's uh um this [13:18] should be this this puts a this puts an [13:20] exclamation point I think even more on [13:22] the conversation is we have to rise up I [13:26] can't be Charlie Kirk [13:28] >> but I can be the best Lucas Miles in my [13:30] generation and what that means is I need [13:32] to take the lessons from Charlie of [13:33] being a lifelong learner of pushing [13:36] myself of of pushing my body for the [13:38] sake of the gospel in the sake of the [13:40] next generation of thinking [13:41] strategically. I have to I have to draw [13:44] from that sort of spirit that that um [13:47] that uh uh you know picture that we saw [13:50] in him um and and then some, you know, [13:53] to be able to do what this world needs [13:55] right now. [13:56] >> Yeah, that's a great point. And it's [13:58] that it's that passion as as you said [14:01] and that energy that he had for what he [14:04] did. You know, I I I've often thought [14:06] about this since since we've lost [14:07] Charlie that, you know, the Apostle Paul [14:10] says in the Bible three times, three [14:12] times he he he writes, he says, "Imitate [14:15] me. I me as I'm imitating Christ." I [14:18] don't think Paul Paul wasn't trying to [14:19] step in and be Christ. Paul was just [14:22] saying, "Look at my look at the energy. [14:24] Look at the passion. Look at the the the [14:27] commitment that God's given me to do [14:29] this and and try to imitate that as [14:32] Christ." And I think that's one of the [14:33] things that we can look at Charlie when [14:34] we look at kind of who he was and his [14:36] legacy, especially those of us that are [14:38] Christian communicators. I mean, Charlie [14:41] was was not only like gifted, like you [14:44] said, God gave him a gifted intellect, [14:46] you know, and he gave him that gift to [14:48] want to learn, but Charlie was also an [14:51] incredible communicator uh when he [14:54] talked to people. And and you know, I'm [14:56] like you, you know, you've seen all [14:58] these comments and I've made some, you [15:00] know, comments about Charlie and then [15:01] somebody will come in and go, "Oh, he [15:03] was this or he was that." And I and I [15:05] often say to him, "Give me an example of [15:07] that because there really isn't examples [15:10] out there where he was these, you know, [15:12] racist kind of person. People try to, [15:14] you know, the lefts try to make him out [15:15] to be, but he was a communicator and and [15:19] he knew that communication was so [15:21] important to what he was doing." Talk [15:23] about that. Well, I I think I think it [15:25] was Don Jr. and you know, it's amazing [15:28] that I'm quoting Don Jr.'s use of [15:31] scripture and reason and logic, you [15:33] know, and I mean, we just saw we saw the [15:35] highest officials in the land and and [15:37] some of the most prominent leaders in [15:38] the nation share the gospel at the, you [15:42] know, one of the most televised events [15:44] in human history. It was absolutely [15:46] amazing. Don said about Charlie, I think [15:49] he he acknowledged the um the [15:51] accusations of he's fascist or something [15:53] like that and and he's like, "I haven't [15:55] seen a lot of fascists who are willing [15:57] to give the other side a microphone for [16:00] 3 hours." You know, you go to you go to [16:02] one of Charlie's events and you know, [16:04] he's giving he's giving the the [16:06] opposition, you know, and now Charlie [16:08] never saw them as opposition. He saw [16:10] them as human beings with dignity and [16:11] worth that were learning through this. I [16:13] mean, there's the one video where um and [16:16] it's been a viral clip. I'm sure a lot [16:17] of people have seen it where there's a a [16:19] leftist kid in college and he brings his [16:21] dad to this rally and they're actually [16:23] working out um uh they're working out [16:27] their conflict at the microphone with [16:29] Charlie and Charlie's like literally [16:30] doing like like father-son counseling, [16:33] helping the the conservative father to [16:36] be able to understand things about the [16:37] leftist son to bring them closer [16:39] together. And he's like, "Look, at the [16:41] end of the day, you guys are family. you [16:42] got to draw into that first and [16:44] foremost. Like this other stuff, yeah, [16:45] like it's worth working out, but like [16:47] your family, like don't draw away from [16:49] that. And you know, family always came [16:51] first for him. But he he had a heart to [16:52] reach those people in that way. I think [16:55] that, you know, um Charlie Charlie [16:59] again because truth is provocative when [17:01] you don't want to hear it. It's easy [17:03] just to throw a label or an accusation. [17:05] When I came into the organization, I was [17:08] probably [17:10] I I if I'm honest, I was probably 85% [17:14] sure that I felt good about Charlie. I I [17:18] went into the job going, "Hey, I I have [17:20] seen enough. I've not seen any concerns. [17:23] I feel like it's a God opportunity." The [17:25] Holy Spirit was affirming in me, but I [17:28] still had kind of these human [17:29] apprehensions of of, you know, is this [17:33] the right move? I've always been about [17:35] the gospel. I've always been about this [17:36] particular thing. I want to make sure [17:37] I'm not losing that by taking this [17:39] position and that, you know, that this [17:42] is really kind of I'm hearing from the [17:43] Lord properly. That was very important [17:45] to me. And as I got into the role, the [17:48] first thing Charlie did was he said, [17:51] "Why don't you take some time and just [17:52] audit the department and audit the [17:54] organization?" And I spent 90 days just [17:57] watching and learning and asking [18:00] questions. And I didn't make one [18:01] decision. I didn't do any hiring or [18:03] firing. I didn't change anything. And he [18:07] gave me a chance just to review. And [18:08] then he had me come back to him and say, [18:10] "What did you find?" And he wanted to [18:12] know what I saw. And I remember going [18:15] through that list and he's like, you [18:16] know, some stuff he was aware of and [18:18] he's like, "I know. I don't know how to [18:19] fix it." And I would be like, "Here's [18:20] what we have to do." Other things he, [18:22] you know, they were he was like, "Man, [18:23] I've never thought about that before, [18:24] but you're absolutely right." Um, I [18:26] think some stuff was a surprise to him, [18:28] but he gave me time, you know, to really [18:31] uh, you know, to do that, to be able to [18:32] navigate, you know, through there and [18:35] and he just had a heart for, you know, [18:37] empowering his team. But when I got [18:39] through on the other side, what I can [18:41] tell you about Charlie Kirk, uh, after [18:44] the last year and a half with him, I [18:46] mean, I flew with him at times. I was I [18:48] was, um, you know, at multiple events [18:51] with him. We shared stages together. Uh [18:53] there's people in the organization [18:54] who've known him for way longer than me. [18:56] Don't hear me at all say I was Charlie's [18:58] best friend of all time. And and you [19:00] know we were I I don't think Charlie did [19:02] play golf on the weekends if with [19:03] anybody for that matter. He did Charlie [19:05] didn't take weekends hardly. You know he [19:06] took Saturday off. He had a Sabbath with [19:08] his family and that was what he did. Um [19:10] but you know so I I don't want to I [19:13] don't want to puff this up make it more [19:14] because everybody wants to try to own a [19:16] piece of Charlie right now. I'm not [19:17] saying that. In the role that I was in [19:20] as a senior director overseeing all of [19:22] the faith operations within TPUSA, I [19:25] what I can tell you is I've never seen a [19:27] person with more integrity. Who [19:30] >> who what he pra what he preached is what [19:31] he practiced. Who he encouraged other to [19:35] be people to be is who I saw him be. Um [19:38] he was uh he exhibit exhibited just a a [19:42] form of godliness. Was he perfect? No, [19:43] of course not. He's human. Um but but [19:46] again he was a great man and and a very [19:48] integrityfilled man and uh the type of [19:52] person that made me want to be a better [19:53] man. Uh there were many moments where [19:55] even in my own life where I thought um [19:58] you know you just have those moments of [20:00] whether it's slacking off or just [20:02] shutting down for a second. And I [20:04] remember I mean there were moments where [20:06] you know my first thought was Jesus I [20:08] got to keep going. Right behind there [20:10] there was a second thought of like [20:11] Charlie would want me to push harder on [20:13] this. And it just like there was a [20:14] motivation there. Again, uh it, you [20:17] know, he just had a way of drawing out [20:18] the best in people. [20:20] >> Yeah, that's great. You know, we we've [20:22] heard that Charlie said, you know, was [20:24] asked, you know, what he wanted to be [20:26] known for, you know, if he passed, and [20:28] he said he wanted to be known for his [20:30] courage and his faithfulness in in that. [20:33] And he he was very aware. I remember I [20:36] saw him at a CNP uh [20:40] probably nine months ago or so. He was [20:42] very aware of the threats that were out [20:45] there. I mean, they weren't they weren't [20:47] just, you know, far off. He was very [20:49] aware of those. Yet, he never, you know, [20:53] succumbed to, you know, backing down on, [20:57] as you said, the truth. And he knew he [20:59] knew what came along with speaking the [21:01] truth. But that didn't that that didn't [21:03] sway him at all. like the courage he had [21:07] to just stand up because his deep love [21:09] for people because he he knew at the end [21:12] the ultimate, you know, thing was about [21:14] eternity. What was it going to be like [21:15] when they stood before God? You know, [21:18] let alone standing up here in the mic [21:20] before me. What's it going to be like [21:21] before? And you know, a lot of people, a [21:23] lot of pastors, a lot of communicators [21:25] today kind of, you know, we they shy [21:27] away from these topics because they [21:30] don't want to be seen as that quote that [21:33] counterculture, you know, and in the [21:36] culture or, you know, those threats. But [21:39] I think that's one of the things that we [21:40] could take away from Charlie was, you [21:42] know, this young man's boldness [21:45] for the love of people. [21:48] You know, I had a com I had a dinner [21:49] with Charlie and it's actually one of [21:50] the more uh more uh it was one of the [21:54] longest times I spent with him uh of [21:56] just it was it was me, him, and Mikey [21:58] McCoy. And we had dinner at nice [22:01] restaurant in in Arizona. We're sitting [22:03] outside and we probably were there for [22:05] three and a half or four hours. And he, [22:07] you know, he just made time to just say, [22:09] you know, let's get concentrated here on [22:11] what's going on in the faith department. [22:13] It was the start of the year. I think it [22:14] was in January or early February. And [22:17] and you know, he we had a relationship. [22:20] I think he trusted me a lot. And there [22:23] was so many other things going on. He [22:24] was moving so fast. You know, we would [22:26] dive in about once a quarter and just [22:28] get like, you know, a couple hours [22:30] together to just go concentrated and hit [22:32] everything that we needed to. And and [22:34] then the rest of the time it'd be text [22:36] messages or maybe a quick call or a [22:37] telegram message or something like that. [22:40] And and so at this particular meeting um [22:43] we we sat we talked for a long time. We [22:46] talked, you know, just philosophically [22:47] about the department, about our [22:49] activity. And Charlie said something, [22:51] I'll never forget it. And he said, [22:53] Lucas, he goes, I want to see us get [22:55] more gritty this year. He's like, if we [22:58] are not doing ministry within, you know, [23:01] our faith activity where we're close [23:04] enough that somebody can punch us, then [23:07] we're not doing it right. and he just [23:09] wanted so badly to be in the trenches. [23:11] He loved that, you know, seeing that [23:14] viral content where somebody's out [23:15] there, not in an obnoxious way, but like [23:17] sharing the gospel and, you know, [23:18] they're at a they're at a convention or [23:20] a pride festival preaching or they're [23:23] at, you know, Burning Man and they're [23:25] going around and talking to people. You [23:26] know, he he loved he loved the idea of [23:29] going to where people were and and, you [23:32] know, the thought of uh safety. It was [23:35] always important, you know, to him. [23:37] obviously he's had, you know, two kids [23:39] and and you know, an amazing wife and so [23:41] he he and and knew he knew that the [23:43] organization was counting on him to to [23:45] be there. Um and and you know, I mean, [23:49] his team is so amazing. Uh you know, [23:51] Frank said this. I'll just echo what [23:53] what Dr. Frank Turk said. His his team [23:55] went so above and beyond and they did [23:57] that for him every day. I mean, here's [23:59] here's the the the straight talk on [24:01] situations like this. Um, when you're [24:04] looking at something, when the world [24:05] wants you dead, your security has to be [24:09] right [24:10] every single time. And the other side [24:15] just needs you to be wrong once. And I'm [24:17] not even saying that our team was wrong. [24:18] I think our team did everything right. [24:21] Uh, and I I applaud those guys. I I've [24:23] had the chance to hug them. Um, our [24:26] team's prayed for them. Um, [24:29] man, it's it's uh they they just they [24:32] loved, you know, Charlie so dearly and [24:34] still do. Um, but you know, I think [24:37] Charlie knew the risks that were out [24:38] there. Uh, you know, he he did the [24:41] forward for my new book, Pagan Threat. I [24:43] think that he understood the pagan [24:44] threat. I think he understood that there [24:45] was a Marxist infiltration and a godless [24:48] infiltration in this nation that wanted [24:50] not only him dead, but it wanted [24:51] everybody who calls on the name of the [24:53] Lord dead. Um, you know, he was just the [24:55] the name that people knew. Uh, he was [24:58] the one, he was the icon that [24:59] represented all of us. And and you know, [25:02] my theology is pretty simple. John 10:10 [25:05] says, "The thief comes to steal, kill, [25:06] and destroy, but Jesus says, I've come [25:08] to, you know, give life and life to the [25:09] full." [25:10] >> And and I think that, you know, Charlie [25:12] understood the risks, but the reward was [25:14] worth it for him. Uh, and now he [25:16] received that martyr's crown. Uh, he's [25:19] given it all. Um and and uh you know [25:22] it's I think he's showed us the way of [25:24] how to have courage. Uh I've been [25:26] assaulted twice. Um I I've had stuff [25:29] happen to me. Um you know when it comes [25:32] to the gospel when I think about it's [25:34] minor compared to what Charlie went [25:35] through. [25:36] >> Uh even before the assassination he went [25:38] through so much more so much hatred so [25:40] much you know insults and death threats [25:42] and everything else. Um Charlie's [25:44] inspired me to be more courageous. And [25:46] what he said about this, and I'll I'll [25:48] turn it hand it back over, is, you know, [25:50] the one thing he taught me is that [25:51] courage is the easiest thing in the [25:53] world. That all you have to do is say [25:55] yes. You don't have to be smart. You [25:58] don't have to be uh uh you really don't [26:00] even have to be brave. Um you just have [26:03] to say yes. You just have to stand up in [26:06] the midst of uh a moment of truth and [26:10] and say yes to God despite what might [26:13] happen to you. You can be scared to [26:14] death, but as long as you say yes, you [26:17] possess courage. [26:18] >> Yeah. I wanted to spend a little time [26:20] talking about those things because look, [26:22] there's so many leadership lessons uh [26:26] that we can get from that from Charlie's [26:28] life. Like you said, he he really lived [26:29] a life that was well done and and [26:32] lessons of that. But let's pivot for a [26:34] second and and talk about where do you [26:37] see where do we go from here? Where's [26:39] this movement? It seems like God has, [26:42] you know, we know the scripture that [26:43] says what the enemy meant for evil, God [26:45] has turned to good. And it seems like, [26:48] boy, this really has sparked something [26:51] in the culture. This is this it's like a [26:53] it's like a tipping point. Like this has [26:56] really sparked something in the culture. [26:58] I mean the pour out for the memorial [27:00] service, the people who were there. The [27:02] fact that we had, as you said, so many [27:04] of the people that govern and lead this [27:06] country who stood up, not only just [27:09] stood up, it wasn't political speeches. [27:11] They stood up and talked about their [27:13] faith. They talked about the gospel. [27:15] They talked about, you know, people. [27:17] They talked about us coming together as [27:19] a as a nation and unity. where where do [27:23] we go from here uh with the movement [27:26] that God has has ignited for us? [27:30] >> You know that I I love this question and [27:32] this is something that's been on my [27:33] heart for a long time. I think that it's [27:35] it's an area that we have to get better [27:37] at. Um and I think that, you know, [27:40] there's some things that we can learn [27:41] from Charlie, you know, in this. Um, you [27:44] know, first off, I I believe that we [27:47] really have to look for ways to become [27:48] united around what I would call primary [27:51] doctrine. You know, as Christians, that [27:54] we have to stop the infighting. Look, I [27:56] I mean, I love having conversations [27:59] about um uh, you know, Calvinistic views [28:03] versus, you know, Arminian views. I love [28:07] having conversations about um, you know, [28:10] once saved always saved versus can you [28:12] lose your salvation. I love having [28:13] conversations about women in ministry. I [28:15] love having, you know, there's a lot of [28:16] things that we can debate and talk and [28:18] we got people on this call watching um, [28:20] you know, that have a bunch of different [28:22] perspectives. But here's what I want to [28:23] know. Do you believe and hold to the [28:27] basic tenants of Christianity? So, what [28:30] are those? Well, we can find them in [28:31] scripture. That's the easiest place to [28:33] go and it's it's the source of all of [28:35] them. But we can look at summaries of [28:37] them like the Apostles Creed. And we [28:39] start with the idea that God's our our [28:41] creator. Just by believing that God is [28:43] our creator and holding to that, we can [28:46] solve the convert, the debate about [28:49] marriage, sex, gender, um you know, uh [28:52] any of those things, sanctity of life. [28:54] Um because the Bible makes it clear if [28:57] God is a creator, well, he's created [28:59] male and female. He's created marriage. [29:02] He's created uh life. And so life in the [29:05] womb should be protected. uh he's [29:07] created um you know uh uh you know just [29:10] the makeup of who we are as as men and [29:12] women. I mean all of that stuff it's [29:13] just that's one doctrine of Christianity [29:16] and it gives us a foundation for our [29:18] conservatism [29:20] uh and our view on a lot of these social [29:22] issues. So we can go through the [29:23] lordship of Jesus the trinity [29:25] resurrection from the dead heaven and [29:26] hell depravity of man. You know [29:28] progressive Christianity is heretical [29:30] because it denies the depravity of man. [29:32] It basically says, "I'm affirming you in [29:34] your sin." And that because it's not [29:36] really sin. It's actually okay. It's [29:38] actually it's it's good that you're like [29:40] you. It's that's how God made you just [29:41] how you are. It it's a it's a form of uh [29:45] you know, some of these ancient heresies [29:47] kind of working their way back. [29:48] Augustine dealt with all this stuff. You [29:50] know, this is this is already there, but [29:52] we're back at it again. It's circled [29:54] back around. And so unifying around [29:57] primary doctrine is really important. [29:59] and we need to stop this the [30:00] conversation. Oh, that person's a [30:02] heretic because you know they do this or [30:05] that. Well, like there's reason there's [30:07] time to say that person is a heretic, [30:09] but we are much more uh I think freer [30:12] with the term. And I think that we need [30:13] to think more about unity first. So, um [30:16] I think secondly, I think we have to be [30:17] very strategic, especially as media, you [30:20] know, um uh professionals. We have to [30:23] look for ways to use media and [30:25] technology to think differently. I I had [30:28] a a guy the other day on a show and it [30:30] was a Christian show and you know I've [30:32] done 150 shows in the last you know two [30:35] weeks and so it's it's uh I can't even [30:37] tell you the person's name honestly. Um [30:40] but you know he just try he tried to [30:42] keep getting me to say like we just need [30:44] this next generation. We just need them [30:46] to show up to church. [30:47] >> And I was trying to tell him like look [30:49] it's yeah I would love for I would love [30:51] for the next generation to show up to [30:52] church but we got to get them out of [30:53] their mom's basement first. We got to [30:55] get them out of the dark places of the [30:56] internet first. We have to We're going [30:58] to have to use technology and media uh [31:00] and strategy to reach them to even get [31:02] them to invite them to church. You're [31:04] not going to just You don't just walk [31:05] outside and go come to church. Like you [31:06] have to go to where they are. And where [31:08] they are is they're in their basement on [31:09] their technology and they're not [31:10] leaving. Some of these kids don't even [31:12] have driver's license and they're 18, 20 [31:13] years old because the anxiety level is [31:16] so high because of COVID and mass [31:18] shootings and and you know wars in the [31:20] Middle East and and threats of war in [31:22] you know other places in the world and [31:23] and you know the trans cult and you know [31:26] gender ideology all this stuff has [31:27] created so much trauma fit all crisis [31:31] and and they are they're struggling so [31:34] deeply and Charlie understood that and [31:36] he found a way to get to them. We have [31:39] we can't be Charlie Kirk. As much as I [31:40] there's days where I wish I was Charlie [31:42] Kirk. I would love to be, you know, I'd [31:44] love to have that that mind and that [31:45] intellect, but God didn't make me [31:47] Charlie Kirk. He made me Lucas Miles. [31:49] And as Lucas Miles, as Troy Miller, we [31:52] have to figure out how to contextualize [31:54] the gospel to this generation, the [31:56] generation that is here 16 days after [31:59] our friend Charlie Kirk was murdered. [32:01] And we have to figure out how to take [32:02] that the the the true gospel, [32:04] contextualize it to this moment in time [32:06] and this moment in history and figure [32:08] out ways to get into the homes and the [32:10] airways and the the digital spaces and [32:13] and the the virtual spaces to be able to [32:16] reach people with the gospel. We cannot [32:18] do it how we did 50 years ago. We can't [32:20] do it how we did 25 years ago. um you [32:23] know it is you know and and I the [32:25] probably the thing that was most um [32:28] compelling for me in this whole process. [32:30] Um I Jensen Franklin has has been a [32:34] tremendous friend to me um this year and [32:38] he has come alongside of us even long [32:40] before the assassination. Uh he called [32:44] me the the night I received well the the [32:46] day that Charlie got shot. I was [32:47] actually out of the country in Aruba and [32:50] I received a call from my assistant [32:52] telling me that, you know, he was shot. [32:54] It was bad. They don't know how bad yet [32:57] um to pray. We started making [32:58] arrangements to come home. We couldn't [32:59] get a flight until the next day. Charlie [33:01] had encouraged me to take a vacation. Um [33:04] and you know, we we uh we were preparing [33:07] just to head out early in the morning [33:09] and I I told my wife, I said, "I just [33:11] need to go watch the sunset." I watched [33:12] the sunset by myself and kind of used it [33:15] as a time just to talk to the Lord and [33:17] just said goodbye to Charlie. we'd [33:18] received the news of his of his passing [33:20] and uh right as the sun went down below [33:22] the horizon, you know, looking at this [33:24] beautiful Aruba Beach, Jensen called and [33:27] um just prayed over me for like 15 [33:30] minutes and it was so touching and he he [33:32] sat with me at the memorial and um in [33:37] the middle of I think it was Marco Rubio [33:39] or or JD, I can't remember, preaching [33:42] the gospel to hundreds of millions of [33:44] people, you know, from the stage [33:47] And Jensen leans over in his southern [33:49] accent and he just says, "If pastors [33:53] stop preaching the gospel, God will [33:56] replace him." [33:58] And I thought, "Wow." And you know, the [34:01] reality is to all of us as Christian [34:04] communicators. I know not everybody on [34:05] this call are pastors the way that you [34:07] and I both are, Troy, but as Christian [34:11] communicators, what I'll tell you is a [34:13] lot of pastors have stopped preaching [34:14] the gospel. A lot of churches have [34:16] stopped preaching the gospel. There's a [34:18] lot of churches that wouldn't mention [34:20] the greatest martyr of our generation um [34:23] who did more for this nation and the [34:25] world and more has led more people to [34:26] Christ than virtually any evangelist in [34:28] my lifetime. [34:30] Um and they won't even mention him [34:32] because they're afraid of splitting [34:33] their church. They're afraid of what [34:34] that's going to mean. What I would ask [34:36] you to do is is to think about Gideon [34:39] who hid in a wine press hoping the [34:41] battle that was raging all around him [34:43] would just pass him by until somebody [34:45] showed up and said, "Arise, you mighty [34:47] valiant warrior. Get in the fight." And [34:48] what I would say to you is there's [34:50] pastors that aren't in this fight. And [34:52] you know, if they don't get in the [34:54] fight, that's between them and God. But [34:56] if you're on this call and you're [34:57] watching right now, I implore you, get [35:00] in the fight. Arise, mighty, valiant [35:03] warrior. It's your time. It's your [35:05] moment. It's your season. [35:24] Troy, I lost your audio. I don't know if [35:26] you can hear me still, but I lost it for [35:28] a second. So, I don't know if uh [35:37] hopefully it's just me. [35:44] >> Can you hear me now, Lucas? [35:46] >> No. Yes. [35:47] >> Okay. Okay. So, love technology, right? [35:50] The enemy wants to keep us quiet. But, [35:52] you know, I think one of the things I It [35:54] was so good what you said. It was so [35:56] good. That's such a call for us to get [35:58] into the fight. You You know, I think [36:00] one thing that Charlie really the third [36:02] thing I think Charlie epitomized was [36:05] even though he wasn't a pastor, he [36:07] shepherded people. [36:08] >> He shepherded them away from, you know, [36:12] the culture and the world and he tried [36:14] to protect them from the wolves. He [36:16] wasn't afraid to protect people from the [36:18] wolves out there. It reminds me of the [36:20] young David. You when he went up against [36:23] Goliath, he said, "Look, I was a [36:24] shepherd. I've already I faced the bear. [36:27] I faced the lion. I faced the wolf. You [36:29] know, but why why are you letting these [36:31] people mock God? And and that's the [36:34] fight that we need that we need people [36:36] Christian communicators, pastors that we [36:39] can get into because the the I was just [36:43] look we've lost like you said so many [36:44] giants. I was at John MacArthur's [36:46] memorial and somebody said, you know, he [36:48] calls the messengers home, but the [36:51] message goes on, you know, and he's [36:54] called this messenger home, but we have [36:56] now we have the call to keep the message [37:00] going on to a to a world and an America [37:03] that is is more open and more hungry for [37:07] that message than ever before to to hear [37:10] that. So that's I think what what we [37:12] need to walk away with is that we as [37:15] communicators, as Christians, as [37:17] pastors, and look, you everybody out [37:20] there who has one of these things, [37:22] right? You know, you have an influence [37:25] network that you can carry on as a [37:28] Christian in the way that Charlie did [37:30] and engage people uh for the glory of [37:34] God and for the gospel and for the [37:36] eternal hope that we have in Christ [37:39] Jesus. Troy, if I can make a plug here. [37:42] Um, you know, I have a real passion just [37:44] to see uh, you know, a lot of people [37:46] have come to me and said, "Hey, how can [37:47] we support what's happening, everything [37:49] else?" Well, first off, you know, TPSA [37:51] Faith is going to continue to be, you [37:53] know, a a major part of of NRB. Uh, and [37:57] and we're so thankful for the network [37:59] that you have have put together and the [38:01] entire board and team there. Uh, it's [38:03] been a home for me for a long time. I'm [38:05] looking forward to being with you guys. [38:06] Guys, I know that you extended. I don't [38:07] even know if my team's responded. Yeah, [38:08] there's been so much stuff going on, but [38:10] I got your letter of invitation. I'm [38:12] planning on being there. Yes, I accept. [38:14] Uh, so I'll be part of that this uh uh [38:16] this new year. And I would say also, you [38:18] know, there's a lot of ways to get [38:19] involved with TPUSA Faith and, you know, [38:22] TPSA in general. And so, you know, our [38:24] various events, America Fest, it's a [38:26] great place for, you know, broadcasters. [38:28] If you're wanting to cover, you know, [38:29] some of these hot topics, you know, we [38:31] have space for that. um this is it's not [38:33] dates that's going to conflict with [38:35] anything that's happening in NRB. Uh you [38:37] know we we want to play nice you know [38:38] together and I think that uh you know [38:40] whether it's it's podcast or interviews [38:42] we have a lot of contributors uh that [38:44] you know I think as some of the initial [38:47] triage phase that we're in right now as [38:49] we pass through that you know some of [38:50] our team and contributors are going to [38:52] be looking for those opportunities to [38:53] get out and talk in their platforms uh [38:55] and to be able to out there. I I've [38:56] been, you know, one of probably a dozen [38:58] of our of our team that's been out in [39:00] the media, you know, quite a bit. And, [39:02] you know, my book dropping the the [39:04] Monday after Charlie's passing has been [39:06] has been um uh you know, it's it's been [39:09] it's been insane and there's been [39:10] interest and I I'm I'm you know, it's [39:12] been a gift. One of our you know, Andrew [39:14] Kovvat, our chief comm's officer, you [39:16] know, he he said this is you know, I [39:18] told him I was struggling because it was [39:20] doing well and and I said I I feel like [39:22] it's doing well. I know why it's doing [39:24] well. It's doing well because Charlie [39:25] wrote the forward. [39:26] >> He wrote the forward [39:27] >> and he goes, Charlie's Charlie's given [39:29] you a gift from the beyond. And he's [39:31] like, he would want this to be a mega [39:32] hit. And it and it has been. And I've [39:34] been so blessed by that. And you know, [39:36] the the message at the end of this book [39:38] is that strategy that that Charlie and I [39:40] had talked through and worked on of how [39:42] do we how do we reach people? And so, [39:44] you know, it's it's a uh it's an [39:47] interesting time. It's a painful time. [39:49] It's a it's a time filled with deep [39:51] sadness, anger. Uh, at times there's [39:54] rage, you know, that that I feel. Uh, [39:56] denial. I've had that a lot of just like [39:59] this isn't real. I need to text Charlie. [40:01] Um, but but honestly, the overwhelming [40:03] the overwhelming emotion, and it's it's [40:06] even hard to say this, the overwhelming [40:08] emotion is is hope. [40:09] >> And and it is that despite this, like [40:13] this earth isn't our home. It's not [40:15] about this place. It's it is we're [40:17] moving towards something. and where, you [40:20] know, there's an eternity in store for [40:22] us and it's really not as far away as we [40:25] think it is. Uh it's only one generation [40:27] away each time for our lives. And and [40:31] that God is [40:34] drawing us to a place where things are [40:36] made as they should be. And I look [40:39] forward to seeing my friend again. Uh [40:41] but in the meantime, let's do what he [40:44] would do, and that's make heaven [40:45] crowded. And there's a lot of work for [40:47] us all to uh to join in. And so I'm [40:49] honored just to be one of all of you as [40:52] a Christian communicator and broadcaster [40:55] and to be part of NRB. You guys have [40:57] been so great with us. Troy, you reached [40:58] out right away. Uh thank you. Well, [41:01] look, we love you, Luke. We love all the [41:04] people at TPUSA, TP Faith, the whole [41:07] family there. We've been praying for [41:09] you. Uh praying for Erica, praying for [41:12] the kids. Um as Christians, we don't [41:14] grieve the same as the world grieavves. [41:16] We feel grief. We have grief. We feel [41:19] the loneliness, the pain. We want our [41:21] friend back. We want that voice back. [41:23] But we don't we don't have the despair. [41:26] We We know that Charlie I I just had [41:28] this picture of Charlie kind of being [41:30] the first one to to to say, "Hey, Vodie. [41:34] >> Hey, hey, come on. There's John [41:36] MacArthur. John MacArthur and I've been [41:38] shouting here, you know, right after [41:41] Jesus. Well done." And that's the kind [41:42] of faith and that's that's what drove [41:44] Charlie was that kind of that knowing [41:47] that hope knowing that peace that that [41:50] was there you you know so so look we'll [41:53] continue praying for you and and that [41:55] we're here to support um look Lucas [41:58] didn't ask me to do this but his book uh [42:01] you know the pagan threat really deals [42:04] with what we're what we're looking at in [42:06] the culture today because it really is [42:08] about Christianity versus paganism. [42:11] them. It really is the pagan threat [42:13] that's going. It's a great tool. It's [42:15] going to be a great resource and and yet [42:17] Charlie did the forward because he knew [42:19] that. He knew that. And so so it's it's [42:22] a going to be help for you individuals [42:24] and for pastors. Lucas, we look forward [42:26] to seeing you all at NRB. Uh we're [42:28] praying for uh Erica. I know she's [42:31] coming up. I think she's on Charlie's [42:32] show here uh about right now or or or [42:36] shortly. We're going to pray for that. [42:38] But again, I think we walk away with [42:40] that call as you said, unity for the [42:42] church, courage for the church, to have [42:45] the courage to to do that and to [42:48] shepherd people. Well, that's the legacy [42:52] in my mind of Charlie Kirk. Um, that's [42:56] the legacy of who he he was. He was he [43:00] shepherded all the tools God gave him [43:04] well for the glory of God and for the [43:08] and and for the benefit of people. [43:11] That's that's who he was and that's who [43:13] we need to be. Lucas, thank you so much [43:15] for being with us. Um and keep up the [43:18] good work, brother. Love you. Love [43:20] everybody there. [43:22] >> Love you guys. Thanks. [43:23] >> Thank you. And thank you all for being [43:26] with us today. Hope you can walk away [43:29] even stronger in your faith and and feel [43:33] that call in individually. Whether [43:35] you're a Christian communicator watching [43:37] this webinar, watching this, or whether [43:39] you're just an individual, walk away [43:42] understanding that you can reach people [43:45] for the glory of God and for the gospel. [43:49] And you I know we've seen the bracelets. [43:51] You can be a Charlie Kirk. It's okay to [43:53] imitate Charlie Kirk. Uh it's okay to [43:56] strive to to be that. But as Lucas said, [43:58] be who God's called you to be. And so [44:01] may God give you the strength. May the [44:03] Holy Spirit give you the wisdom and the [44:06] words as you go out and help this dying [44:08] world. Thank you all for being
