Transcript [00:00] Joining us now is Troy Miller. Troy is [00:02] the president and CEO of NRB, National [00:06] Religious Broadcasters, an organization [00:08] that equips Christian communicators to [00:11] share the gospel with excellence on [00:13] radio, television, and all digital [00:16] platforms. Troy, thank you for joining [00:18] Sunday, the road forward. It is great to [00:19] see you. [00:21] >> It's great to be with you today. Thanks [00:23] for having me. Well, I uh I know that [00:25] right now NRB is leading the way on many [00:27] fronts and right now there's there's a [00:29] front uh cultural front and even a [00:31] religious front uh with with religious [00:34] liberty where all are concerned here. Um [00:38] there is a case right now where Michael [00:40] Ferris is leading the charge regarding [00:42] the Johnson amendment. And I know uh for [00:44] many viewers there has been a concern [00:46] for a long time uh about um what people [00:50] are free to say pastors uh free to say [00:53] from the pull pits in America. U but [00:56] this you know we have we're on the 250th [00:59] anniversary at least the eve of the [01:00] 250th anniversary of our nation. And for [01:03] the longest time, pastors were free to [01:06] talk about politics from the pullpit. [01:08] The Johnson Amendment was introduced in [01:10] the 1950s, and it really became a gag [01:14] order uh from from the federal [01:17] government uh for pastors not to weigh [01:19] in on key political and cultural issues [01:22] that that uh had political implications. [01:26] What What do we need to know about this? [01:30] >> Yeah, Ryan, you're right. So for 170 [01:34] plus years uh pulpit across this country [01:38] uh pastors were able to speak biblical [01:40] principles uh during the election cycles [01:43] and they spoke about key issues. They [01:46] spoke about candidates uh whether [01:48] candidates supported uh you know [01:51] biblical issues and and and biblical [01:53] principles, biblical morals u and those [01:56] things and so pastors were free to do [01:58] that. Then came along Lyndon B. Johnson [02:00] runs for Senate. Uh during that Senate [02:04] uh uh race, he's opposed by a number of [02:08] churches and other organizations mainly [02:12] for his racist uh remarks and and [02:16] tendencies. Um but anyways, that [02:18] election was a little contested itself. [02:21] But he gets into the Senate and and as [02:24] one of the Senate leaders, one of the [02:25] first thing he does is attach this [02:27] amendment uh to a bill that's going [02:30] through. And thus it was called the [02:31] Johnson amendment. And this amendment [02:34] did three things. It said that nonprofit [02:37] organizations of which churches fall [02:39] under that category uh they couldn't [02:42] financially support candidates uh for [02:45] office. They couldn't oppose or endorse [02:49] candidates for office. [02:51] um or talk about issues that would be [02:54] seen as opposing or supporting [02:56] candidates for office. And then it [02:58] limited the amount of lobbying activity [03:00] that they could do. [03:02] >> And so so this went through without a [03:05] single vote uh in either house, the [03:08] Senate or or the House, without any [03:11] votes because it was attached uh to one [03:14] of these appropriation bills and it had [03:16] just went through and became law. Um and [03:19] and really as you said had an effect to [03:21] just silence the pulpits across this [03:23] country. Uh since that time the IRS has [03:28] re really what we see as unequally [03:32] applied this rule this law uh across so [03:36] so several conservative churches uh [03:39] who've talked about issues or talked [03:41] about candidates uh have received [03:43] letters from the IRS cease and desist or [03:46] you're going to lose your status. Um [03:48] while at the same time just in the last [03:50] four or five elections um you know we've [03:53] had presidents uh Barack Obama, Joe [03:57] Biden, Hillary Clinton, Kla Harris have [04:01] all been in churches um and endorsed [04:04] from the pulpit by candidates and not so [04:07] much as a peep out of the IRS. [04:08] >> Yeah, that's exactly right. there there [04:11] is a there is a kind of um bias uh [04:16] prejuditial uh enforcement of uh of this [04:20] standard. Um it's been relaxed for some [04:23] and I and I would just say I would go [04:25] you know there's been many churches [04:26] so-called uh for decades that have [04:29] operated like NOS's and they've been the [04:31] sort of the organizing mechanism for the [04:34] left busing to on voting day and and [04:38] ballot harvesting and other kinds of of [04:40] things. Uh but they've they've enjoyed [04:43] very relaxed standards. The IRS has [04:45] never been prejuditial in terms of their [04:48] enforcement there. But when it comes to [04:50] conservative churches, absolutely. One [04:52] that that is at top of mind, a friend of [04:54] yours and a friend of mine is Gary [04:55] Hamrich at Cornerstone Chapel. Uh he's [04:58] been harassed by the IRS. He has uh [05:00] prevailed uh you know in in in those uh [05:05] those different audits that have come. I [05:07] know that John MacArthur and there's [05:08] been others uh Franklin Graham uh has [05:11] been audited as well. Uh and they have [05:13] prevailed uh largely because they've had [05:16] pristine recordkeeping. they are above [05:18] the fray when it comes to adherence to [05:21] the law, strict adherence to uh you know [05:24] the cotification of the law. But uh but [05:27] to your point uh Kla Harris uh was in [05:32] the in the Commonwealth of Virginia [05:33] where I am broadcasting from uh was able [05:36] during a campaign to speak before 300 [05:40] churches, liberal left-leaning churches, [05:42] and as long as they were supporting the [05:44] correct candidate, the IRS did nothing [05:47] uh to oppose that. [05:49] >> Yeah, that's right. and uh and that that [05:52] if you look back at that, look at the [05:53] YouTubes of those um a lot of those [05:56] pastors came out and directly endorsed [05:58] her candidacy there. Um but look, you [06:01] you take this back, Ryan, and and this [06:03] real issue here is about the government [06:07] stepping in between pastors and the [06:11] pastor's conscience, the word of God, [06:13] and their call before God. And that that [06:16] is exactly what the first amendment was [06:19] meant to u prohibit and protect uh the [06:23] church against was the government [06:25] getting in between that because as you [06:28] know pastors have a called uh uh a [06:32] calling to preach the word of God and [06:34] that's the full council of God. So to [06:37] talk about those issues that are [06:38] important uh to them as pastors in [06:42] shephering, guiding their flocks and um [06:45] so that's what we really stepped in [06:47] here. That's one of the reasons so so [06:49] it's you know really had a as you said [06:52] it's had an effect on pastors that [06:54] they're worried about the repercussions [06:57] to their flocks not just themselves or [06:59] their church but to their congregations [07:02] because it's the congregations that lose [07:04] out here. They're the ones that lose the [07:06] tax deductible uh piece of this. It's [07:09] not really the church itself. [07:11] >> Yeah, that's absolutely right. We just [07:13] have just a few more minutes and I I [07:16] wanted to I'd be remiss if I didn't [07:18] mention this. Um you at NRB and and [07:21] George Barnett at the Barner Group have [07:23] done research on this. Um and it's a [07:26] very important study, a report that has [07:28] come out just the influence that [07:29] Christian broadcasting has uh [07:31] particularly in this this current [07:34] environment we find ourselves in in [07:36] 2025. We have more platforms of [07:39] communication today than we ever have [07:41] before uh since the advent of the radio. [07:44] And I just wanted to talk about the [07:46] influence that Christians can have in [07:47] the public square. [07:49] >> Yeah, Ryan, this was a really exciting [07:52] survey. We we did this looking at what [07:54] the impact of of um Christian media is [07:57] having and we specifically wanted to [07:59] know the impact outside of your own [08:02] local church. When we asked these [08:03] questions, we asked people don't [08:05] consider your local pastor sermons or [08:09] Christian media in this. And and right [08:11] off the bat, the big number was 60% of [08:14] the general population. That's the [08:16] general population of the US, not just [08:19] Christian population, but the US, the [08:22] broad US population tunes in to some [08:25] form of Christian media on a regular [08:27] basis. Uh that was huge to think about [08:31] how many people across this country are [08:34] really tuning in, really listening to, [08:37] searching out uh Christian media to help [08:40] them in their everyday lives. Thank you [08:42] so much, Troy Miller, president and CEO [08:45] of NRB. Thank you for joining us. [08:48] >> Thanks for having me. [08:52] >> For more encouragement and to stay [08:53] connected, follow Dr. Tim Clinton on [08:55] Facebook, Instagram, and X. We love [08:58] being a part of your life. [09:01] [Music] [09:07] Hey, thank you for watching Sunday, the [09:09] road forward. Dr. Adrien Rogers once [09:12] said, "As the West goes, so goes the [09:14] world. As America goes, so goes the [09:17] West. As Christianity goes, so goes [09:20] America. As evangelicals go, so goes [09:24] Christianity." He said this, "I'm firmly [09:27] convinced that if we could clean up the [09:30] pull pits of America, we'd go a long way [09:33] to cleaning up America." Let's pray for [09:35] revival and for revival to begin in our [09:39] churches and our pulpits across the [09:42] nation. I'll leave you on that note. [09:44] Until next time, God bless you. [09:50] [Music]
